AgentFawkes
Leader of the DPR
Operative Anton Kyznetsov
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Post by AgentFawkes on Apr 19, 2012 22:02:21 GMT
Kso I'm working on the Metal Gear GEKKO, and I'm thinking the artificial muscle tech it uses is about 2010 maybe? 2020 at the latest? You can read up on it here
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Post by yondiame on Apr 19, 2012 22:05:05 GMT
Umm Fawkz it's not metal gear Oh yea I'm going to begin on project peacewalker in 1 or 2 decades
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Post by ProkAdama on Apr 19, 2012 22:05:52 GMT
I feel as if 2015 is a good date. The AI robot of mine will be fielded then, and the tech will be quite polished IMO by then.
Fail, Yon? It is.
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Post by yondiame on Apr 19, 2012 22:18:10 GMT
Why is that pork
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Post by ProkAdama on Apr 19, 2012 22:21:06 GMT
It's from Metal Gear Solid
And YOU won't call me pork. Only Sam, Martyr, Alice, Shark, and everyone else.
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Post by yondiame on Apr 19, 2012 22:38:37 GMT
I could sworn I typed prok
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shark
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You can't always do what's right. You can always do what's left.
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Post by shark on Apr 19, 2012 23:00:11 GMT
I'm thinking that anti-grav is in the realm of fantasy, and the tech we would need to be able to pull it off would make us masters of the universe. To get around that, any ship concept I've ever had has had some form of spinning living quarters. Cheaper than fancy tech-magic.
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Post by ProkAdama on Apr 19, 2012 23:06:00 GMT
If no anti-grav, then my timeline tanks are worthless.
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Sgtsammac
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Post by Sgtsammac on Apr 19, 2012 23:38:12 GMT
So even artificial gravity would be complete fantasy?
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Post by ProkAdama on Apr 19, 2012 23:39:33 GMT
Lets stop with the 'fictional non fictional' stuff? Seriously, the whole game is fictional.
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shark
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Post by shark on Apr 19, 2012 23:46:21 GMT
I think we're saying "fictional vs fantastical" to my knowledge, the game was started as: Let's pretend that in 1900 the world was how it was, but these countries rose to power. so we've been playing historical fiction so far, no dragons or magical powers. IMO, the laws of this universe should match the real universe as closely as possible, allowing for different events but not for impossible things. That's the difference between fantasy and fiction.
If you think about gravity, it is one of the more important and fundamental properties of our universe. The tech that could play with that property would also give us the power to destroy and make planets, contain black holes, forge elements, etc. We would be gods.
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Post by ProkAdama on Apr 19, 2012 23:49:49 GMT
But listen, you can't 'judge' things that are created 2015+. Maybe we will discover new technologies that will let us do things like hover tanks. Teleportation. Everything. It could be possible, just not now. It's like a bunch of guys in WW1 saying how rockets can't be put into space because of the underdeveloped tech at the time.
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shark
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Post by shark on Apr 20, 2012 0:04:35 GMT
I can totally judge future problems with today's knowledge. I may be proven wrong, but that's why this thread is non-binding. It's just for us to try to analyze and get a hold of things.
Let's use teleportation as an example. To my knowledge, there are 2 proposed mechanisms: 1. object to be teleported is converted to energy, then beamed to it's location. 2. a wormhole is opened that joins two points of spacetime together. Problems with 1 are as follows: the energy that would be released from the conversion of any significant amount of matter to energy would be too much to handle, energy would inevitably escape the system and the transported object would be incomplete, nobody could survive the process (you might as well just clone the object to be transported then destroy the original). Problems with 2 are: No feasible way to do this, radiation feedback loops, potential paradoxes if you mess up the time thing.
There very well may be some crazy discovery in 2015 that solves all these problems, but that's like saying that Jesus will come to earth and like the statue of him in Rio so much that he'll fight for the Empire from now on. The more blanks we have to jump to say "technology x that we don't understand makes this possible" the farther from the truth we will probably be.
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Sgtsammac
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Post by Sgtsammac on Apr 20, 2012 0:10:02 GMT
You're both right. The game was designed to be Historical Fiction, BUT it is extremely difficult to say what future technology can and cannot do. I'm of the opinion that with sufficient energy, anything can be done. The trick is to harness the energy safely, and know how to utilize it to get the desired result. I don't deny that the energy needed would be huge, but I'm pretty sure you could break apart a few lead atoms to the base parts, and re assemble them into gold atoms. Of course it wouldn't make sense financially, but with the energy and ability to direct it, it could be done. I mean, nuclear fusion takes 2 hydrogen atoms and turns them into helium, so that's a start.
Going along that line of thought, is gravity control fantasy or not?
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Post by ProkAdama on Apr 20, 2012 0:11:30 GMT
And this logic will make us stay at 2012 tech forever.
Gravity control? I don't see why not, unless Shark comes up with a lengthy science article about why it can't be done.
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Sgtsammac
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Post by Sgtsammac on Apr 20, 2012 0:13:26 GMT
Which actually if he did I'd be very impressed to say the least.
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shark
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Post by shark on Apr 20, 2012 0:13:41 GMT
Personally, I think gravity control is centuries away. That being said, I'm not our resident physics guy, and I think a lot of people's existing designs depend on it. I say we let it in, but I'd like to see some form of advantage to engineering around it, like maybe a lower price tag.
EDIT: give me some time for that science, boys. I'll compile some not to keep gravity tech out, but for my horrible ego.
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Sgtsammac
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Post by Sgtsammac on Apr 20, 2012 0:18:48 GMT
Oh for sure, deff cheaper price tags on anything that doesn't need super hi tech things to get the job done. But don't expect it to perform as well either. If ship X has a spinning structure, it's bound to be very fragile, at least compared to ship Y that doesn't, and can instead have very secure armor points. Not to mention, the large spinning wheel would create drag on the ship that a more streamlined grav control ship wouldn't have, thus making it slower (per same engine power)
And I'd still be ok with making it a later tech. Say just before interstellar travel, put it at 2100 and IST at 2115 maybe. Hovertanks could just function as jet or air current based until then.
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shark
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Post by shark on Apr 20, 2012 0:21:32 GMT
No drag in space, my friend.
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Sgtsammac
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Post by Sgtsammac on Apr 20, 2012 0:27:14 GMT
None what so ever? I could have sworn Bussard Ramjets were rejected as a possible space engine due to not being able to overcome the drag they'd create. Plus there's this: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interstellar_mediumAnd drag is more felt the faster an object moves, at interstellar speeds, it'll add up.
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Post by ProkAdama on Apr 20, 2012 0:30:01 GMT
Well my 2040 tanks, the electronic effect under them: that'll be air current then, okay?
Also, PLEASE edit the Tech list as I follow it all the time. PLEASE.
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AgentFawkes
Leader of the DPR
Operative Anton Kyznetsov
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Post by AgentFawkes on Apr 20, 2012 0:39:03 GMT
Wait... the GEKKO... in 2015?
>_> <_< No arguements from me :3
And about future tech, there's lots that can be done, just that most things these days take money and resources that governments can't just throw around anymore. Unless you look at DARPA, then by all means, it's got some great stuff. Anyone seen the stair climbing robot that goes human speed? That's why I'm thinking that GEKKOs will soon be pretty do-able, given synthetic muscle tissue's been invented.
(Also, I can't get over the fact that the Gekko WILL kick you, something most mechs can't do without tipping over)
And Yon, while not a traditional Metal Gear, it is designed to obviously be similar to one. It's only real defining factor is it's inability to carry nuclear munitions, suicide Gekkos not included.
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Sgtsammac
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Post by Sgtsammac on Apr 20, 2012 0:40:25 GMT
I thought Sam was taking care of it, I had to ask him what was going on with tech when I started to defend myself in France lol Downside to being gone for so long I guess.
I'll modify those prices and work on the tech list Sunday after my Bday party is done.
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shark
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Post by shark on Apr 20, 2012 0:41:52 GMT
I suppose at speeds approaching light speed, you might need to worry about drag; but I imagine that we won't be doing light speed combat. I imagined that we would need different transport vessels to get to the intergalactic areas that we're exploring, but that your average ship wouldn't be able to make the leap.
Table one on the Wiki page outlines the density, if you look at the fractional percentage of molecular clouds (the main drag causing thing) they comprise very little of the interstellar medium. The density of the IM is a 10^6 molecules per cubic cm at it's most dense, whereas air hovers around 10^19 molecules per cubic cm. You're going to have to be going pretty fast to feel that.
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Post by ProkAdama on Apr 20, 2012 0:49:28 GMT
"Table one on the Wiki page outlines the density, if you look at the fractional percentage of molecular clouds (the main drag causing thing) they comprise very little of the interstellar medium. The density of the IM is a 10^6 molecules per cubic cm at it's most dense, whereas air hovers around 10^19 molecules per cubic cm. "
Dude... c'mon. My brain. Is frying.
We don't have to do this. Why can't we have a convo that everyone can understand?
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Sgtsammac
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Post by Sgtsammac on Apr 20, 2012 0:50:11 GMT
Ok, that's why I showed you the table lol I'm not a physics major or anything either. But you make a good point about the 'type' of travel. It really wouldn't be a problem with your suggestion, especially if shipping lanes of absolute minimum density were mapped out for during near light speed. Should we get to light speed+ I'm pretty sure none of that will be a problem anymore because the tech level would be so high. (Light+ at 2250? Somehow?) Though by that point I suppose artificial wormholes "might" be feasible? I have no idea where that stands in science vs fantasy considering some fictions claim it be easier than Light+ where others claim it to be nearly impossible as they zip around at Light+. Obviously both are considered impossible by today's standards. But if the game stays together long enough to reach 2250+ I think I owe it to you guys to let you get from one star to another within a week or so.
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Post by asrodrig on Apr 20, 2012 0:52:04 GMT
I'll let you guys deal with the physics aspect. If anyone has questions concerning botany or carpentry, you know where to find me.
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Post by ProkAdama on Apr 20, 2012 0:52:45 GMT
The game won't be fun if it's too realistic!!!
The game won't be around 2250! That's more than a YEAR from now, isn't it? An entire week? The game will be EXTREMELY slow, I tell you!
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Sgtsammac
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Post by Sgtsammac on Apr 20, 2012 0:53:41 GMT
I meant week ingame time Prok xD
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shark
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Post by shark on Apr 20, 2012 0:58:44 GMT
yeah I think some of this post 2050 talk might be an exersize in futility, but I'll be optimistic and say that we get there I think if we ever figured out string theory (only a couple years away for the last 30 years) then we might have a clue about how to work and expand a wormhole... which would be a bit quicker than zipping around at huge speeds. Unfortunately that also brings in the possibility of time travel, which I think we should DEFINITELY leave alone.
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